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PC Magazine Editor-in-Chief Michael J. Miller recently had the opportunity to talk with Adobe CEO Bruce Chizen about open-source software, the Macintosh and the software scene. Here is that complete interview:

Michael Miller: What do you think about the progress open source and Linux are making?

Bruce Chizen: The server side clearly has momentum. I don't think the actual usage in mission critical projects, especially large mission critical projects, is as great as we all believe. It's happening but... speaking to one large enterprise software supplier that's a partner of ours, most of their implementations are still NT, and they really are on the mission critical side of the business.

The real question becomes on Linux desktop, and I think it can happen. I haven't seen it yet other than [in] developing countries or governments of developing countries. In lot of these countries, it's just a very inexpensive way of getting a box without Windows, and then they pirate Windows after the fact. So you kind of have to look at that in the process. So the question is, "real usage of Linux desktop, when does it happen?" The compelling reason is it's cheaper, or at least has the perception that it's cheaper. If Microsoft doesn't do anything, then I think Linux desktop has an opportunity to take off. If Microsoft does take action, especially on things like pricing, and business models, it might stall the adoption of Linux in corporate.

On the consumer side I think the boxes just keep getting cheaper and cheaper. The challenge is, until the environment is stable enough, people are going to continue to pay a premium for Windows.

MM: Well what about if you make lots of big Windows apps... what about Linux apps?

BC: We do Reader today. We did an experiment with Framemaker a couple of years ago and it was a total failure. The only people who wanted to use it are people who wanted it for free or very inexpensive and there was no real market.

The first application that we'll probably do will be a full version of Acrobat. And that's something that we're already experimenting with. The question becomes should we take our traditional graphics apps, apps like Photoshop, Imaging, and should we port them to Linux. Right now we're taking a wait and see attitude.

MM: We know Microsoft is not likely to do it. So, you're the second largest desktop applications vendor, right? If you're not doing it, and you can go down the list, and you go down the list fairly far, who is going to produce desktop Linux applications?

BC: The challenge is not just us. In this environment, where everybody is connected, it's not just about a confined desktop system that can run your applications. It has to work within the entire enterprise workflow. If we today start to install Linux desktop devices at Adobe, we have to work seamlessly with our SAP ERP system, and I'm not sure Linux is there yet on the desktop. Until that infrastructure is in place, I don't envision many corporations switching to Linux on the desktop in a wholesale fashion. Once that's in place, or close to being in place, then it becomes a bigger opportunity for us. Because you know, most of our software [is] used by professionals, professionals that have to interface with enterprise systems. And I think that's the real barrier to adoption.

MM: Ok, let's talk about Mac then. Obviously most of your applications run on Mac, to some extent, fewer now than it used be to because you've pulled back in some cases because Apple was in the space.

BC: It didn't make sense to compete against Apple.

MM: How is the Mac platform doing in the corporate space from your perspective?

BC: When you look at our overall revenue, or percentage of revenue, we get somewhere between 22% and 25% of our business from Macintosh customers or software that runs on the Mac. If you factor out Acrobat and the server products, our Mac business has stayed relatively strong, which is good news. And I believe, at least what our customers are telling us and what our revenue is telling us in terms of mix, that those loyal Macintosh users, continue to be loyal to the Mac.

What we don't see are a lot of graphics professionals moving over, back from Windows to Macintosh, but those who are on Mac, because of all the great things that Steve [Jobs] has done, are sticking with Mac. Most of our customers are telling us they have plans to move to G5 this year, which is good news for the industry and good news for us.

MM: What about the applications, like Premiere, like Photoshop Album, things like that, that aren't currently available on Mac?

BC: The two major applications that we chose not to do on Macintosh were Premiere and Photoshop Album, and basically for the same reason: Apple already had an offer, and it doesn't make sense for us to take our resources and try to compete directly with them, where in effect they either give away the software or they have a competitive advantage that it doesn't make sense for us to try to compete against. And in the case of video, they're tied into Quicktime, they're tied right into the hardware. It was easier for us to focus in on Wintel and try to produce a more compelling solution. In the case of Photoshop Album, they give away iPhoto free. Why compete with free?

So, the good news is, Apple's serving its customers. So the customer is not getting cheated out of it, and we get to, in effect, produce a better product for the Windows customer, that doesn't have Apple producing software for them.

MM: Clearly in the video area, you had a product before Apple did. They came in; they did a nice job, no question. FinalCut is a very nice product. Are you at all worried that they're going to do that for Photoshop, or something like that?

BC: Michael, if you look at a category like digital imaging, or now even layout, Adobe has such a strong position in a market that's been around for many years. We continue to innovate, and I'd be surprised if Apple tried to compete with us in those areas. Apple has told us that's not their intent, and I don't believe they will.

MM: On the Windows side of the world, 10 years ago if we were talking, there were a whole bunch of desktop application companies, and there still are a whole bunch of them but there aren't many very large ones left. You're an exception, in some ways, THE corporate exception.

BC: I think if I look at other large Windows ISVs, it's the security guys (in particular Symantec), it's Intuit on the financial side, and us on the applications.

MM: So what's your secret? Just pick the right market? Microsoft tried this market.

BC: I think our secret in competing against Microsoft is… What we've learned is if we stay close to what we do well, which is software that helps people in organizations communicate better, where reliability matters, where high fidelity matters, where people care, where good enough is not appropriate and not acceptable, we've competed with them successfully.

If you think back to the old days with PostScript, they tried going after Postscript in the old days and they actually had a printer that failed. They tried - - I don't know if you remember the days when they tried to give away Microsoft PhotoDraw with Office, trying to kind of niche out Illustrator and Photoshop... failed, discontinued product. They tried to go around PDF or the Acrobat Reader with Microsoft Reader in the whole ebook space. You don't hear much about that anymore. They tried using PictureIt as early as '96/'97, and tried to use that as a way to niche up Photoshop. It was not successful.

It's not because they're not good. It's because our focus is so clear, and we do a really good job of what we do. What's helped us a lot is the environment has moved into our direction: the machines are more capable; people want more visually rich information; they want information that's reliable, that works across multiple operating systems. That plays into Adobe's strategy. Plus, having a free reader for viewing has also helped us a lot.

MM: Clearly you've got the free reader. There are now more and more alternatives to Acrobat for creating PDFs. You've published a standard... this is a good thing?

BC: It's a great thing; it's validation. From day one, we opened the specifications up on PDFs. There are government agencies around the world that have made it a de facto standard. In fact here in the U.S., NARA which is the National Archives & Records Administration, which is the agency responsible for all kinds of archiving of information, has standardized on PDFA, which is a subset of PDF. So, the good news is, it's become a standard.